#13 From the Bronx to the Sahara - My Journey to God with Imam Abdul Karim Pinckney

Abdul Karim Pinckney was born and raised in The Bronx, NY, and converted to Islam in 1999. He was a student at Zaytuna Institute in Hayward, CA, for five years where he studied Maliki fiqh. He took bayyah with Sidi Muhammad Sa'id al-Jamal ar-Rifa'i as-Shadhili in 2009. He was also was an assistant to Imam Musa Abdul Ali in Mt. Vernon, NY, at Masjid Yusuf Shah from 2012-2015. Currently he is the Imam at the Farm of Peace where his duties include giving classes, assisting events, and giving Friday sermons. He has a yearning for helping beloveds come to know their Lord with clarity through revelation and reason, in the hope of reaching direct experience, with the result of an increase in love of God.

Summary: From the Bronx to the Sahara – My Journey to God with Imam Abdul Karim Pinckney

In this podcast we talk to ʾImām ʿAbdul Karīm Pinckney about his journey to God, shining light

Summary: From the Bronx to the Sahara – My Journey to God with Imam Abdul Karim Pinckney

In this podcast we talk to ʾImām ʿAbdul Karīm Pinckney about his journey to God, shining light to the mysterious and oftentimes paradoxical nature of the way the Divine works. Dedicated to spread the message of the Oneness of God, he served as the ʾImām at the Farm of Peace, a farm, retreat, and healing center located in south-central Pennsylvania, connecting hearts to the teachings of Love, Mercy, Peace, Justice, and Truth.

Born and raised in the Bronx, New York, ʾImām ʿAbdul Karīm converted to ʾIslām in 1999. His story is an anomaly. And yet, captures our universal vulnerability with snippets that spark the flame of trust in the unseen.

ʾImām ʿAbdul Karīm completed his ʾIslāmic studies in Mālikī fiqh (الفقه المالكي) at the Zaytuna Institute in Hayward, California. As he describes, this scholastic experience was transformative, embedded in scholarly knowledge and practical depth. During this time period, he was blessed to engage with, learn from, and receive direct transmission from some of the most learned, humble, scholars and shaykhs (الشيوخ) of our time. A sharp contrast to what set him off to dialogue with Allāh (الله to begin with and reminding us: turn to God and keep close to those who travel the Way.

We are entrusted with stories of sacred encounters related to Sīdī Muḥammad al-Jamal (سيدي محمد الجمل), Shaykh Murābiṭ al-Ḥajj (الشيخ مرابطة الحج), Shaykh Sālek bin Sīddīna (الشيخ السالك بن سيدنا), Shaykh Hamza Yūsuf (الشيخ همزة يوسف) and Shaykh al-ʾAmīn (الشيخ الامين), awakening our hearts to the tarbiyya (تربية) that occurs in the presence of luminous beings, the type of education needed on the path of surrender. This tarbiyya is articulated best through his following words: “The lessons continued not necessarily verbal but watching how a shaykh is like during all the facets of life.”

This conversation is a refreshing listen, particularly for those of us that have detoured while traveling toward the truth. The mirror of reflection presents itself to us. It reminds us of the door of repentance and through that trajectory, betterment. Incidentally, it summons compassion and mercy. Can we find similar experiences in our own story of the alteration of day and night? How have our prayers been answered? How does that living conversation with the Divine continue to open and shower us with gifts? Do we choose to soak our heart and intellect in gratitude and mercy? Are we present to the birth of a new creation in every moment? In what ways and means do we surround or find ourselves in places and with people who support our growth? If only as a prayer, granted from the world of the unseen, are we in pursuit of those great realized beings who’ve walked the path before us, knocking on the doors that pave the road to arrival?

Through his sharing, we find our hearts connecting to the leadership and strength of Shaykh Hamza Yūsuf. We are invited to fly through the vivid recollection of his travels to Mauritania, glimpsing at the inlet of Tuwamarat and stopping with what nomadic life reflects to us in contrast. We step into the vastness of love, its relationship to our heart’s presence, its protective role against shayṭān (الشيطان), and how it fosters contentment and gratitude whether we’re experiencing hardship or ease. The energy of steadfastness and reliance holds potential to permeate our consciousness and with our return, through our shared human commonalities, we may find ourselves at the end of this interactive discourse in greater receptivity to the Divine embrace.

From the Bronx to the Sahara – My Journey to God with Imam Abdul Karim Pinckney

Host: Saqib Safdar
Guest: Imam Abdul Karim Pinckney

Saqib
السلام عليكم (as-salāmu ʿalaykum), greetings, welcome everyone. My name Saqib, your host on The Ḥikmah Project podcast and today we'll be speaking to امام عبد الكريم (ʾImām ʿAbdul Karīm) and I was very fortunate to visit the Farm of Peace in Pennsylvania where I met him and got to know him and invited him to a podcast. He was born and raised in the Bronx, New York and converted to اسلام (ʾIslām) in 1999 and then studied الفقه المالكي (Mālikī fiqh) with الشيخ همزة يوسف (Shaykh Hamza Yūsuf) at the Zaytuna Institute for five years and during that time he also visited الشيخ مرابطة الحج )Shaykh Murābiṭ al-Ḥajj(, Shaykh Hamza’s teacher in Mauritania, so he tells us about that. And then in 2009 he met his spiritual guide سيدي محمد الجمل (Sīdī Muḥammad al-Jamal) from Palestine. He is also currently serving as the ʾimām at the Farm of Peace and that's where he gives his Friday Sermons, lectures, talks, assisting events, etcetera. He will إن شاء الله (ʾinshāʾAllāh) be running some courses for us on The Ḥikmah Project and so, one of them will be on رمضان )Ramaḍān) and the other one will be on an Introduction to Ṣūfīsm based on the books of Sīdī Muḥammad al-Jamal and yeah, I think that's it, so without further ado, here's the podcast.

Imam Abdul Karim
الفاتحة سورة
أعوذ بالله مِنَ الشيطان الرجيم Ο بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيم ﴿١﴾ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴿٢﴾ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ ﴿٣) مَالِكِ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ ﴿٤﴾
إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ ﴿٥) اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ ﴿٦﴾ صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ ﴿٧﴾
آمین

[Recitation of Sūra al-Fātiḥa]
ʾouʿthu bil’llāhi min ash-shayṭān ar-rajīmi, bismi llāhi ar-raḥmān ar-raḥīmi (1) al-ḥamdulil-llāhi rabbi l-ʿālamīna (2) ar-raḥmāni ar-raḥīmi (3) māliki yawm ad-dīni (4) ʾiyyāka naʿbudu waʾiyyaka nastaʿīnu (5) ihdinā as-ṣirāta l-mustaqīma (6) ṣirāta l-thīna anʿamta ʿalayhim ghayri l-maghdūbi ʿalayhim walā l-ḍālina (7) ʾĀmīn

Saqib
As-salāmu ʿalaykum.

Imam Abdul Karim
وعليكم السلام (wa-ʿalaykum as-salām).

Saqib
Welcome ʾImam ʿAbdul Karīm thank you for that beautiful recitation.

Imam Abdul Karim
الحمد لله (al-ḥamdulil-llāh), al-ḥamdulil-llāh.

Saqib
Wonderful to have you on the show today.

Imam Abdul Karim
Thank you, it’s good to be on the show.

Saqib
Al-ḥamdulil-llāh, so can we start with your journey to اسلام (ʾIslām)? How did you come to ʾIslām?

Imam Abdul Karim
Okay, al-ḥamdulil-llāh. So about I'd say around 22 years ago, ما شاء الله )māshāʾAllāh), I was working at a temporary job in the hospital and at this point I was around 19 years old and I had a job, I also was, you know, running crazy in the streets and partying outside in the street and stuff like that, and I came to a point where it was weird enough when I was working I decided that I was going to start selling drugs, which is just crazy thinking but it's part of the path and part of my story.
So I was going to start selling drugs and it was my coworker who was actually the one who was going to supply me, he was doing that on the side, and I got home after work, we made the connect to say he was going to bring it the next day I got home. On the way home I was just thinking about it, like I hung out with drug dealers and knew how that lifestyle was and the amount of anxiety and always being on point and looking over your head on a swivel, worrying about your friends, or so called friends, and people used to plow a car. So it just was a lifestyle that I realized, one, I had a legitimate job; I didn't need, and I had two parents that loved me, took care of me, supported me and I couldn't understand what made me want to do that other than, you know, the programming.
But, so I made a prayer and funny enough in the bathroom. Well I remember my head was next to the toilet and I was like, “God, if you just get me out of this, I'll do whatever and whatever you want.” And so the next day, I go to work and we're sitting there working, he worked next to me, and we worked the whole day, we get off, walk into the six train, and he said, he told me he's like, “Yo, you know the stuff you asked me to bring?” I’m like, “Yeah”. He says, “Somehow, I forgot it. I just forgot.” And so in my mind that was like the answer to my prayer, الله (Allāh) took the thought out of his mind, it was just, I was like, “Okay God, whatever you want.” I was so happy when I got home; and then from that point, I was trying to read the Bible, from front to back and I always would fall asleep at some point. And then a sister I knew because I used to also rap online, this sister who, you know she liked our songs and stuff, she was telling me about ʾIslām and you know, said, “Okay, I'll look at it.” But you know, I didn't want to hear any more from her because I like looking at things, the sources for myself, not necessarily people telling me so.
Her father, stepfather, gave me my first القرآن (Qurʾān) and I took it everywhere with me and I was reading it, like at that time that temporary job had finished and I wasn't working, I was just home that summer, and that whole summer I read the Qurʾān, al-ḥamdulil-llāh, obviously in English, from the front to the back and I just took breaks here and there to play basketball and stuff but that experience was so intimate because when I explain the difference I felt when I was the reading a Bible, it was like reading a history book, it was read like in third person, but when I was reading the Qurʾān, it felt like God was talking directly to me, like “You,” like He was speaking directly to me and so it was just amazing.
And so I had a few different interactions with people that, it was like, and I guess I would say a few I don't want to make it too long, but I came across three different groups of people on one day's journey when I was reading the Qurʾān, riding the subway, just reading and getting off, I was really just like vagabonding, but obviously I was going home. So I was reading, reading, reading, get off a stop, I was walking around Manhattan, sat down on a bench, started reading, and from the far, you know, Manhattan, I don’t know, Manhattan blocks are long, so I'm looking down to the corner and I see this guy talking to, going up to people, and then I see his shirt and it said: “Jews for Jesus,” and I looked and said, “Oh God, don't let him walk over here.” As soon as I said that he walked, he turned, looked directly at me, and walked straight to me.
So we had a nice conversation and he pulled some questions because I told him you know, he saw me reading the Qurʾān and he's like, “Why would you want to read that? You know, I have some friends that are Muslim but it's violent,” and all these different things he was bringing up and I was saying my piece, but he had brought up something and I don't remember what it was, but whatever it was, when we finished our interaction and I went back to my place and reading the Qurʾān, it answered everything he said. Like as if, “Okay, you're back now. Here's the answer to everything you just went through.”
And that kind of happened two other times, one with my aunt and another with these I don't know what kind of offshoot ʾIslām they practiced but it wasn't—it wasn’t real ʾIslām, these guys had a book stand on a corner and they were selling these books and it’s some sect that was like, it’s a whole different Qurʾān with like, آدم (Ādam) was left behind on a UFO like it’s weird stuff. And so they were like, “Oh, you know, your name is Karīm, you know, that's noble,” and this and that, and I always heard generous. So I knew like some of the things they were talking, there were certain things that were on point, they had books on like the things on the effect of television on you and stuff like that. And then they say, “Yeah, you know, you should join us,” and I say, “You know, it seems like we're on the same—in the same direction but we're not on the same like wavelength.” So I was like, thanks but no thanks. Then when I went to the Qurʾān it like answered what they would bring in. And then the last one was my aunt was, she had said something about you know Jesus is—you know the mercy comes through Jesus or something like that. And then when I went back to my reading after talking with her, Allāh says, “All mercy belongs to Allāh,” like it was just like it answered the doubt that came up.
It was like so these three instances in like that whole period of reading the whole Qurʾān, it was things like this that was really strengthening. And I believed once I finished it, it was like, this is the book, the perfect book. And before that, I was reading a book called Path to Perfection. It was a baha’i faith book, and I thought that book was on point. And I remember calling my friend telling him like, “Oh, this is the book right here, this book Path to Perfection,” and then I got the Qurʾān and I read it, I called them up again, “I was like, nah, forget that Path to Perfection, it’s just like a watered down version of ʾIslām,” and so we, from that point, then I wasn't sure, I was definitely sure about the Qurʾān but it's interesting enough I wasn't sure about the Prophet Muḥammad صلى الله عليه وسلم (ṣallā Allāhu ʿalayhī wa ālihi wa sallam, ﷺ)
So I got a book of his سيرة (seera) and I got to the point of the story of الطائف (al-ṭāʾif) when Allāh commanded him to invite the people and they had the beggars and children pelted with rocks and he left and it is described his “Sandals were gushed with blood,” and “He found refuge under a tree and then the angel appeared to him and said, ‘You know, if you give the command now on top of the mountain on these people,’” and he said, “No, perhaps believers will come from their loins.” At that moment, because before my teaching, my—not my teaching but my upbringing, my schooling elementary to high school, and even college after I didn't go right after high school, was all Catholic, private school, and so I had an understanding of prophetic character. And when I read that, I just broke like, I was weeping, I was crying, I closed the book. I didn't even finish reading. I said, “I believe,” and so that—that was it. And then I saw, I met some sister online, and she told me about a مسجد )masjid) to go to to make شهادة‎ (shahāda) and al-ḥamdulil-llāh I went and here we are. Years later, الله اكبر (Allāhu ʾakbar).

Saqib
MāshāʾAllāh, that's amazing. The Qurʾānic verse on Allāh brings out people from darkness into the light (Q2:257) comes to mind and just the way he's guided your heart is very inspiring, māshāʾAllāh. So then you went to a Zaytuna and you met Shaykh Hamza and you spent a number of years with him. Can you tell us about that?

Imam Abdul Karim
Sure. That was interesting because the first video I watched was Shaykh Hamza in his Curing the Heart, it was a VHS cassette, and that's what I would watch when I was in New York. And so this, my shahāda was in August, when I left to go visit California the next year in March because of a sister which wound-up being my first wife, my ex-wife now, but I was talking to her, she was attending Zaytuna, she told me about it, and she mentioned Shaykh Hamza and I was like, “But I had this video.” So I said, “I'll take a trip out there to see what it's like.”
So I went out there in March and it was just—it was surreal because when I walked into Zaytuna and I'm laughing because this first event going to Zaytuna, so what it became, so what it is now that's just out of the world, but what it was at that time it was like a small little trailer kind of thing with a small building. And I remember walking in and seeing Shaykh Hamza sitting in and I was like, سبحان الله (subḥān-Allāh) like this is not TV like he's right there, like this is not a cassette tape. And then al-ḥamduli-llāh I don't even remember the lesson I just remember being, feeling drawn, like, “Okay, this is where I want to be,” and so I moved out there maybe about a month later, or maybe in April or May, one of the two, and got married and from then started. الشيخ محمد اليعقوبي (Shaykh Muḥammad al-Yaʿqoūbi) married us and he was there, Shaykh Hamza had brought him out, he was teaching class actually that night we got married.
And then, so I was there from 2000 to 2005 when Zaytuna Institute was in Hayward, California, now it's in Berkeley, it’s a fully accredited college now; but in these days we would get together, they would have classes, sometimes the brothers would get together after to do extra study in order go out and just have fun, go to a restaurant or something. And that was, these years were so impressionable to me because it was like, the golden expectation, so you're getting your sacred knowledge, yeah, you're connecting with other people from various backgrounds, that was the other beautiful thing about Zaytuna it wasn't just like black, African-American, Pakistani; it was a tapestry of many different backgrounds and a range of ages I would say at that time from like 20 to maybe 50 and some were older than that. But it was really fully—a full experience. So you got the learning, you got to connection with the people, and you got the fun times too because we would have fun, we’d play basketball, we, some of the brothers, we helped at a masjid doing a youth study حلقة (ḥalaqa). And so there was no area in my life at this point that didn't include God. So it was like there wasn't this separation where I'm learning and now I go out into the world and it's just like, “Here's my sacred and here's my secular.” It was all sacred at that time. And, it was fun. It just was something that you don't ever really see. Especially when they depict like religious experiences or in movies and things like, you really don't see the humanity of people, you obviously see other things, but this is like a real complete picture and experience and so it really had a deep impact on me. The teachers that I met, الشيخ السالك بن سيدنا (Shaykh Sālek bin Siddina), he was a teacher that also I sat with for a while, Shaykh Hamza brought him from Mauritania and that was a big experience.

Saqib
Can you tell us about that? What was that like?

Imam Abdul Karim
It was really a huge thing because it was like feeling like how the صحابة (ṣaḥāba) were with the Prophet (ṣallā Allāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam, ﷺ) because we, you know, I didn't know Arabic, he didn't really speak English at the beginning, we always had someone to translate. And so there was about I would say a good maybe five of us that kind of accompanied the shaykh all the time, a lot. Yeah five or seven of us and so, from having from—and that was the last maybe two years; and so this experience was even deeper because it wasn't just sitting in class for the درس )dars.( We would sit in class and there'd be other people who've been in the class and when the class is over we would take the shaykh up to around the corner to his apartment and then stay with him, fixed food, and the lessons continued not necessarily verbal but watching how a shaykh is like during all the facets of life.
And like one aspect that really stood out to me was the living room. Culturally, in our culture, the living room was where the TV is or entertainment and that's where everybody sits. How he had his living room was a bookshelf, carpets, and a rug and he sat on the carpet. He was the center of the living room. So when we came in we—it was like how people come in and sit to the TV, we sat in front of him. And he would just you know, either tell us certain things at that time we were there; and then there’s another thing we had fun studying because there's a text, اخضري (ʾAkhḍarī) it’s a fiqh text, and we used to spend the night at the shaykh’s and we would call it a ʾAkhḍarī party. So we will be trying to memorize the texts, at night it was like three or four of us, Shaykh Sālek would go to sleep and then we would be up either cleaning and then going over the text. So it was enjoyable on all levels and so that that was something that people really don't get to experience.
And even after and استغفر الله (ʾastaghfur-llāh), when I moved back to New York after leaving, I say I even—the lesson I learned was to not always—to not make comparisons. Because I kept, the places I was going to, going like “Man, this isn’t like what I was experiencing at Zaytuna. What's this? This is not it.” Meanwhile when you do things like that you deny yourself the witnessing of the blessings of what’s present because you're comparing to what was but Allāh is always bringing things that you need in the now. And so when I finally let that go and accepted wherever I went and been present there, I was able to, one, benefit more myself and be a benefit more to the people as well.

Saqib
Ṣubḥān-Allāh, and what about could you tell us a story or something that you still remember about your meeting with Shaykh Hamza where it had an impact on you or there was a teaching, you know, element there?

Imam Abdul Karim
There's one story that is definitely personal but it's also, it's not even—it’s what he transmitted, it really wasn't even what he said. So this was after 911. You know, at that time, Shaykh Hamza, ʾImām Zaid, they were like kind of going around giving talks and like trying to dispel peoples’ fears and things and, I know myself, ʾastaghfur-llāh for that, I was a little selfish, I wanted to get back to learning the fiqh because that's what we were doing but, you know, such a big event took a pause in our lessons. And so long story short, I was going to different gatherings of Muslims and the conversation I was haring and it was like, you know, some conspiracies and different things like that, and I was wondering I never heard it, like, “Bring it back to Allāh,” like Allāh, you know, all things happen by the will of Allāh or different things like that, and landing and grounding in Allāh and nobody was really saying that so, it was kind of causing a disturbance in my heart and I remember, going to work, and I just was thinking, thinking, thinking, and I don't remember specifically what but I wasn't feeling comfortable and after work, I was like, I need to see Shaykh Hamza and so I drove out to Zaytuna and normally, you know, he's there when he's teaching but you—it's like hit or miss if you go there, you're not necessarily going to see him every time you go. But I just drove out there and you know, māshāʾAllāh, when I got there, it was around a little after مغرب (maghrib) and they had prayed already. A lot of students, not a lot, but the students that helped in the background, were having a meeting in the office with him, and I made my صلاة (ṣalāt), and then he was getting ready to leave and I asked if I could have a word with him for a minute. And I was soaking, so calm now, but in this moment, I was crying like heavy because Allāh like answered the prayer, like, I wanted to speak to my shaykh and it was so random of me going there and he was actually there when I got there, it was just like a gratitude to Allāh. So I was, there were a few things weighing on me, and I was telling him, you know, “Nobody's really talking about Allāh right now,” like, “they're just talking about conspiracies,” and this and that, “but then nobody's talking about Allāh. What happened to لا حول ولا قوة إلاّ بالله (lā ḥuwla wa lā quwatu ʾilā bi-llāh)?” Now I remember, I couldn't really pronounce it at that time, but he understood what I was saying and he said, “You know, we need you to be strong right now.”
And then I had another worry because, well I guess at this time, a lot of stuff was just coming up for me, and so I was like, you know, because people say I recite good or well, māshāʾAllāh and I say, “You know, there's a حديث (ḥadīth) about people who towards the end of time that they recite the Qurʾān with melodic beautiful voices but doesn't go beyond their necks,” meaning they don't understand what they're saying, they’re just—it’s just outward. And I said, “How do I not become one of those people?” like I was really worried about it and—and he just smiled. And this is the part that’s like, it wasn't so much what he said it was like just what the transmission, like what just came out of him into me, and he just smiled and he’s like, “Don't worry,” you know, “you're not one of those people.” He said, “You know,” and that's when he was saying, “you know we need to be strong during these times.” And he just was building up my confidence. And he left and I think that was right before he left to go to DC to meet with the President or to have a talk on that thing. But it was just the timing of how I got there, the meeting ended he was about to leave, and then he left the state; like it was just like Allāh allowed me that peace. And that really had a big impact on me because it really grounded me that was the first time that I actually felt unsettled and the few words in that transmission really just soothed my heart al-ḥamdulil-llāh.

Saqib
So the whole timing, the synchronicity of the events and the way they unfolded they were all māshāʾAllāh. So I believe in that time you also went to Mauritania to meet the great Shaykh Murābiṭ al-Ḥajj and Shaykh Hamza I believe describes him as somebody you know, from the sixth seventh century like somebody who is, you know, you're traveling back in time almost. So could you tell us about what that was? And did you get that feeling?

Imam Abdul Karim
The Mauritania, yeah, when I was, because I went twice, the first time was I believe in 2005. And it was this experience, so you know, I met Shaykh Hamza māshāʾAllāh, I met Shaykh Sālek, now, I wanted to see their teacher. I said, “If you guys are this I want to meet your teacher.” So, you know, al-ḥamdulil’llāh I got my passport and went out there and I didn't speak Arabic. And so this—this is kind of the wildness of these experiences of going to an Arab speaking country, I'm going by myself, and I don't speak the language and so I went out, got to France, and Shaykh Sālek sent some books with me to go to his mother who is out there, Air France lost them so to speak and so, so… but when I got to France, I misplaced my connecting tickets, so I'm running around and then I found it. Someone needed to—they had too much luggage and they needed to—they asked me through translators who were French that didn't speak much English but knew enough so it was like they were speaking French to them and they were translating, she asked if she could act like she was with me and I'll take the luggage and I said, “Okay, sure,” because all I had was really like a book bag. And we get to Mauritania, land, it's late. It's probably like nine, this is at night pitch black. And so we get to the airport and this sister who I helped get her luggage there sees I land; all I had was a small piece of paper with a name and I didn't know who was supposed to be picking me up or anything, so she's looking at me and I'm just like looking kind of dumbfounded and so she motioned for me to come over and she's asking me like you know, “Where?” and I said, “I don't know,” I showed her the piece of paper. And then she motions for these two guys to come over, which one was her son and another was her brother. And we got, she you know took me to her house or family's house, I got in one car with them, she drove off with another in the cab and we got there. They fed me, her father came in, he was a حافظ (ḥafiẓ) of Qurʾān and he came in and he just sat down on a rug and pulled out his Qurʾān. And I was just like…
Just, this whole thing was mind-blowing because when I landed in Mauritania and seeing everybody was black, that was just like it was a shock to me. And it was, to see that, and then Muslim on top of that was just like, people like when we were driving, after you know, after this meeting with this family, they called the brother who's supposed to pick me up and they made arrangements for me to meet him the next day. So they let me sleep overnight. They fed me, let me sleep, total stranger like from New York, this is an anomaly. You would never hear a story or it was rare to hear a story like this in New York.
And so, when they connected me with the brother and we're driving and I'm like, “Man, we’re driving, that’s a long…” Kiffa from Nouakchott is a long drive; seeing family stop on the side of the roads to make ṣalāt, I was like, “Why am I going back to America?” So, but you know, al-ḥamdulil’llāh I get to Kiffa and I see Shaykh Sālek’s brother, he looks almost identical, just a little heavier māshāʾAllāh and he had pinkeye. I get it immediately, so it was like I became the specimen in the fishbowl because the kids and their mother, so they were coming in and looking at me and just watching me, and it took some time for me after it cleared up because we got medicine and the pinkeye cleared up and that's what they were waiting for to send me to Tuwamarat where Shaykh Murābiṭ al-Ḥajj was once it cleared up.
And that was like, this was a whole like—it was not easy. And I gotta find ʾinshāʾAllāh, I have a camcorder, because I had a camcorder and I almost like did a video journal kinda, and that was hard, the flies, I can't stand flies like bugs flying around and it was just, I was like, “When am I going to see Shaykh Murābiṭ al-Ḥajj,” and they were like, “غدا (ghadān) ʾinshāʾAllāh, (ghadān) ʾinshāʾAllāh,” and I’m thinking, “Oh my God.”
Finally, clears up, we go out there and after maghrib we’re leaving, we’re driving and we take a turn off road now where there's no roads, going up mountains it’s all black, dark, we catch a flat in the middle of the Sahara (الصحراء, as-saḥrāʾ) and I'm like, “Oh my god, I'm not getting out this car.” Al-ḥamdulil’llāh, they fix it. We got off the track, this brother, cuz I guess they have like little landmarks that you know where to turn at, and this brother walked, he had a flashlight on his head, and it looked like he was maybe five steps away. But in the desert and it'd be flat and just spacious. It took him like 20 minutes to come back from where he walked, he was that far away. But the spatial, the way it looked, at what didn’t look, and so when he fixed everything, we got back on course, and الشيخ الامين (Shaykh al-ʾAmīn), may Allāh have mercy on him, when we got to Tuwamarat he's the one that took me in and basically cared for me.
So فجر (fajr), he was leading fajr, ظهر )dhur(, عصر )ʿaṣr), and I was waiting for Shaykh Murābiṭ al-Ḥajj as a you know, and I've been out there since fajr, I hadn't seen him and then maghrib comes and maghrib is so beautiful in the desert because it's nice and cool, there is a beautiful wind, and so now the heat is gone, there’s a nice cool breeze going, the brother is calling the اذان (adhān) and then out of, I don't even know where he came out of, out of probably from his hut or the tent, you see this older man with his arms on I guess his two sons, and they're helping him walk out, and subḥān-Allāh, I remember thinking like, “They're helping him walk, but he really has this whole village on his back.”
And then once he got closer, I just broke out crying like I couldn't control it. I don't know what it was, I saw him, and you know I'm trying to hold it and be tough like crying? and it just, I just was crying, it was a release. He led the maghrib and he salāmed out and then I remember he was doing this little ذكر (dhikr) to himself just sitting there and all these thoughts in my head, like, “What is he thinking? What does he see? How does he do this and this?” and then he turned and looked at me, and when he looked at me, it was like I said is like a squeeze just all those voices, just silence. Everything just went silent. And I just looked down to the ground like, “What was that?” And you know, that was my first meeting with him.
And then later after he went towards where his tent was, he sits out there and people just line up to either go ask him questions, ask for دعاء (duʿāʾ) so I went and asked for duʿāʾ and then the rest of the time I spent with other brothers. And another brother that was out there, I didn't know he was out there, but he was from a Zaytuna, and he was out so he was able to translate for me. And so that was a huge blessing that I had no idea he was out there. And so we hooked up and he was going over certain texts with me and then I would sit with Shaykh al-ʾAmīn and he would go over certain things and the brother would translate.

Saqib
How was it like? How's nomadic life, out in the desert? How's that, you know?

Imam Abdul Karim
It’s a hard life and there's parts of it that's easy because it's not all this red tape that we created in our societies, but it's hard because of like the physical aspects of it. And so like I, one thing that I found that I liked actually was a bucket shower like a shower without the showers, washing with a bucket and out in the area.

Saqib
Yeah.

Imam Abdul Karim
It just felt so refreshing. And making وضوء (wudūʾ) outside and, you know, just refreshing but the sun, oh God, yeah that; the second time I went to Mauritania I didn't think about. The first time I believe it was more like forked because it had rained a little bit. But the second time I went, it was in the summer. That was a whole different experience. I was drinking pitches of water. And that's actually how I got sick I believe. I was guzzling the water like crazy and then I wind up getting sick. But that life is—that was the first time I'm having milk right out of a cow too and at that time, that was another thing, I was lactose intolerant. And so when they came, they came with this big bowl of milk freshly out of the cow and I didn’t want to like say no so I was like, “Okay, bismi-llāh,” and I drank it. That was the best milk I ever tasted. It was warm. It had a slight sweetness to it. It was just very satiating. MāshāʾAllāh.

Saqib
Yeah.

Imam Abdul Karim
And so, yeah that and the cooking, they had this one brother had made—I had goat snout, like just seeing like you cook everything, you don't waste anything, and it's a beautiful experience. I think, especially for myself growing up in a place like New York City, the Bronx, and hanging out in places in Queens, and I was like, “Man, we thought we was tough!”
This is a whole other level of toughness because it definitely takes some strength to be in the desert. And I think that's a blessing too because there's many lessons that you can get from desert they've been just like, I think there's lessons that if people have a level of consciousness you can get from street living too, if you get out of it, like looking at it from afar.

Saqib
Wonderful. And then you met your spiritual guide Sīdī Muḥammad al-Jamal in 2009. What happened there? How did you meet him? And how did you know he was your guide?

Imam Abdul Karim
So this is interesting. When I first took shahāda I had—was reading from his work on www.sufimaster.org because the first books that I picked up, I had were Ṣūfīsm books, The Seekers of the Truth, that's the Idries Shah book, Purification of the Mind by الشيخ عبد القادر الجيلاني )Shaykh ʿAbdul Qādir al-Jīlanī), Allāh have mercy on him. There were Ṣūfī books and this website has stations of the heart, the نفس (nafs), the secret of the soul, and I was reading it, it's not on there anymore, it's in his books. But that's—
I remember one time specifically reading all the stations and it took me one night because it took until fajr, I remember the sun had rose and when I was in California, I didn't stream all the way, not streaming but I kept in contact with the teachings of that site and I did not know that the طريقة )ṭarīqa) actually had a land, the land up in Northern California, but so when I went to New York, I was looking for dhikr circles, because you know, we did dhikrs and قصيده (qaṣīdas) in Zaytuna and stuff like that and I didn't find anything like that when I moved back to New York.
So I was looking, I found something on this meet-up group and when I got to the beloved's house, there's a picture of a Sīdī on the wall so I'm like, “How do you know this man?” because I’d seen his picture on the website and for all I knew he was just in Jerusalem like he never came to the States. And he goes, “Oh, that's my shaykh.” Like, “Are you kidding? What? How is he your shaykh?” Like this is this white guy, the shaykh’s from Jerusalem, so, “What?” and he said, “Yeah, he comes to the States,” and that’s when I’m like, “He comes to the States?” So where?” and he says, “Oh, this farm out in Pennsylvania.” And so I said, “When?” and He said, “Oh, it’s Labor Day, he comes every Labor Day, they have this thing, Ṣūfī school out there.” “Okay, that's it.” Once he told me that, I was target acquired. I was focused on getting to the farm. One day they were having the Ṣūfī school and so I, oddly enough, I was moving at that time me and my—my now my wife, we, our family we were moving into the apartment I was born into in the Bronx, my family still had it. So we were moving in and I pushed the last box of our stuff in the apartment and then I said, “Okay, as-salāmu ʿalaykum,” I went, I left, to go to the farm.
So first of all I’m on the way to the farm, I get here, and the brother had told my wife when he was telling us about the farm, he said, “Oh, you know, the place is kind of rustic. I don't know how, you know what kind of accommodations you’re used to,” and I was laughing, I was like, “I've been in the Sahara. You can't get more rustic than that!” So when I got here, I’m like, “Oh, man, this is beautiful. I'm taking pictures. I'm sending it to my wife.” And she's like, “That's not bad! That's not bad!” So I said yeah, “You would have really loved it out here.”
And so I see this car coming up and around going to the teaching barn and there’s Sīdī and he's going to be giving a dars so I get to the front of the teaching barn and stand outside the door in front of the walkway, so he gets out the car, he's walking with his cane, and he comes up to me, he smiles. And he looks at me and says, “I've been waiting such a long time!” and then just gives me this hug and I hugged and that, that, that experience like just like I don't—I don't know, like that, that, that was just such a surreal moment. I don't even think I went in for the dars like he walked in and I think I just was standing there like—because from the teachings when I went through it on the website, like this is my shaykh. Like, this is who I want but he's not around. So, once I found that he actually came here and then meeting him and on that day I took بيعة (bayʿa) and you know, I sat in some of the lessons, for the resident. And then from that point on, we kept coming to the farm every year until now that we, al-ḥamduli-llāh, we moved, we live here. And so, al-ḥamduli-llāh.

Saqib
So what—how was it like? Did you get the impression you had met a saintly man? And you know, did you see his light? I mean, how—how is it different to say than just meeting an elderly man who was generous and kind?

Imam Abdul Karim
This feeling, it’s like you—it’s a feeling of peace and safety like in their presence and strength also. And there is a part of you, that you turn into a child like out of admir—yeah, admiration, the love that flows like because I said, Sīdī and Shaykh Murābiṭ al-Ḥajj, may Allāh have mercy on both of them, to me, meeting them was such a gift and the experience almost mirrored each other in how I felt in their presence. Just a peace. It was just a connection, a real deep connection. Like sometimes you can meet a brother one time and like I remember I met a brother, and when we met I said, “I don't know but my soul feels like it just knows you.” And we, from that meeting, we've had a great relationship ever since. And it's just like with men of that caliber, you feel the connection and just a peace in their presence that is different than anybody else.

Saqib
And you mentioned how you were drawn to the teachings. What was it about the teachings that really sort of drew you?

Imam Abdul Karim
One teaching, an understanding of عليه السلام آدم (ʾĀdam ʿalayhi as-salām) in the story, and I had this understanding and I wasn't any—I’m not a scholar, I don't consider myself a scholar now, but I was just learning and this understanding I had that you know, when Allāh forbade ʾĀdam from eating from the tree, and he ate from the tree, I had an understanding. And this was also you know me at this period I was coming out of Christianity and you know, where it's you know, Original Sin and Jesus, all this other stuff, where this understanding was no this—he ate from the tree but it was also it was destined for him to eat from the tree.
And he explained also the presence of شيطان (shayṭān) in one of the teachings. I had said something like, “The devil is like,” this is obviously I didn't have any studying but I said, “The devil is like the guard dog of Allāh,” like the Garden rather, I won't say Allāh, “The guard dog of the Garden,” because if you get caught by him, if you're not pure enough, you're not going to be able to pass through. And there was a teaching that he said, “إبليس (ʾIblīs) is a pure fire, and he's a fire outside the Garden, and to go through the fire in order to enter the Garden he'll catch you by any impurities and turn you away.” And the understanding where yes, ʾIblīs is like, he's our enemy, but he's not the enemy of Allāh like Allāh doesn't have the opposite; and that he plays a role.
And so the way the teachings melded, these understandings and then the love, the understanding of love, that component of compassion and mercy was in such a way that I haven't ever experienced before. So that's what now it's like because I remember too and this is something weird, I took a rock when I was just—before I took shahāda and I was reading on www.sufimaster.org and I was like, I took a rock, where I lived in the Bronx, we were right next to the Hutchinson River, and I said, because it was just you know everything records everything I was learning so I took the rock, and I said, “I want to be a part of the religion of love for the rest of my life,” and then I threw it into the river. And it was just like, why I did that I remember my thought process was: “I want this to be my testimony on the Day of Judgment and this rock is going to bare witness to it.” And so, then being in his teachings and how he immerses love and everything, I knew that this—that was it for me.

Saqib
So what's all this love about, where does this come in? And how did he manifest it?
Imam Abdul Karim
So the love is the essence of reality, like when we—the love is what drives us to do what we do. And our goal is to direct that love back to Allāh because it really comes from Allāh to us and our purpose is to return it to Allāh. And so, this love is Allāh created us not out of necessity, out of a pure choice, there was nothing obligatory, only he created us out of His love to be known. And so love is the most important aspect because when we understand, when we have the love behind what we do, it beautifies our actions.
And so this, oftentimes why people will kinda are either in rejection of the concept of love or this is not really focused on in religious discourses because people often confuse romanticism for love. And you know, love is something that is beyond intellect. It is something that, you know, people will say, “It will drive someone mad,” because they're driven by the love but the love for Allāh is grounding us in the reality of what we're experiencing in the now. So Allāh is creating us now. It's not like he created us a time ago and now we're just ticking on our own. He's creating us and sustaining us every single moment. We're a new creation every moment.
It's like almost, if I don't know if you know those, what do they call the old picture shows on a stick books where you would flash the—it would be like stick figures on one thing and you flash, you flip the pages, and it animates?

Saqib
Yes, yes.

Imam Abdul Karim
That's almost like what we are, every moment is a creative experience; like my hand moving is constant creation in every moment, it’s not just this hand was created and now I'm moving. No, Allāh—every act is Allāh and so this love connects us to the present and to the Presence of the present which is Allāh سبحانه و تعالى‎ (subḥānahu wa-taʿālā) and so without the love when we look at legalistic or legalisms without having that love infused in it; we remember the law without the Law Giver. And so the law is important in our walking to the Law Giver, but the law is not the goal, it is the means to the Source. And so oftentimes people confuse the law as the goal and so you know, it becomes a shell. It's just an experience.
You're not moved because like even in the instance when I said I prayed with my head by the toilet, like you're not supposed to pray in bathrooms, but we're talking about Allāh so fiqh teaches us the outward modalities but it doesn't teach us what Allāh like if Allāh accepted the act or not. So we know what position to have our hands or where or how to bow and ركوع (rukūʿ) and سجدة (sajda), but where is our heart in the moment? We may have the perfect form but we might be you know, “Allāhu ʾakbar,” go into rukūʿ and it's like, “Man, what am I gonna eat?” Like, that's just not complete, there's a deficiency there. But when you come to ṣalāt out of love out of a yearning to Allāh alone, that dispels other than Allāh from penetrating your ṣalāt.
And it's a hard thing like these are the easy things to say but very hard and it takes work. But it's a blessing, the journey to the arrival is the blessing. And so love is a huge component and if I say love, we can understand it as Allāh’s embrace, then we would—because many times when we define love, we come out of the love because when we define it, we tell ourselves if this thing isn't there, then we're not in the love. Because this is how I define love. But if we understand love to be what is we are never out of it.
So it also protects us from the shayṭān, وس وس (was-was), that’s like, “Oh, you're bad,” “Allāh doesn't love you,” “Allāh’s punishing you,” “You're wrong,” all of those things kind of fall to the side and you realize, you want to do the actions that fiqh is calling us to, out of gratitude to Allāh, out of your love and longing to know Allāh, and then it moves beyond the fiqh because now you're in a dynamic living connection.
And Allāh gives from whatever He feels—whatever, not feel, ʾastaghfur-llāh, or whatever you need in the moment. And that can't be done by anyone else. And so being in the connection, you will have a level of awareness and receptivity to recognize what Allāh has given you in each moment.

Saqib
Subḥān-Allāh, wonderful. So, on that note, ʾImām ʿAbdul Karīm, I believe you're planning to run two courses via The Ḥikmah Project, so can you tell us about that one, An Introduction to Ṣūfīsm, based on Sīdī’s book.

Imam Abdul Karim
Yes. So that book, that's the Introduction of Ṣūfīsm is based on Sīdī’s book Walking the Path of Ṣūfīsm, and so in this book, he kind of goes from traditional elements of ʾIslām like the مذهب (madhabs) with الإمام مالك (ʾImām Mālik), أبو حنيفة الإمام (ʾImām Abu Ḥanīfa), الإمام الشافعي (ʾImām Shāfīʿ) أحمد بن حنبل الإمام (ʾImām ʾAḥmad ibn Ḥanbal), what they said about Ṣūfīsm, so this is showing you that there is a connection between ʾIslām and تصوف (taṣṣawuf) like there’s not a separation really.

Saqib
Yeah.

Imam Abdul Karim
And it really gives a taste of the love and how it connects to like ʾIslāmic legal actions, different blameworthy qualities of the heart that we want to purify ourselves of and certain praiseworthy qualities. It contains many different ḥadīth and commentary and so this, it’s a real, especially from someone who already may be familiar with ʾIslām—

Saqib
Yeah.

Imam Abdul Karim
It gives it in the light of ṣūfī principles, understanding, and the love that I think would be more palatable to someone who has somewhat of an ʾIslāmīc understanding because it connects terms that we're used to hearing—

Saqib
Yeah.

Imam Abdul Karim
With the love understanding and so I think it's a good introduction. And for someone who hasn't had a so called like an ʾIslāmīc background or understanding of a Muslim upbringing that ʾinshāʾAllāh in the teaching of the course there is the connection where you don't have to have any frames of reference from the dars itself ʾinshāʾAllāh you’ll have what you need to have the understanding or basic understanding ʾinshāʾAllāh.

Saqib
And the second course of Ramaḍān?

Imam Abdul Karim
The Ramaḍān course ʾinshāʾAllāh will be offering little nuggets here and there of wisdoms, attributes of Allāh, and certain practical things that you can do to benefit during Ramaḍān and enhance your connection with Allāh ʾinshāʾAllāh.

Saqib
That's wonderful! Thank you Sīdī it’s wonderful talking to you and if I can ask you kindly to end with a prayer and your beautiful voice. And we really look forward to running these courses on Ḥikmah with you.

Imam Abdul Karim
Al-ḥamduli-llāh, sure. Thank you for having me, it's a blessing to have this opportunity.

Saqib
Thank you.
Imam Abdul Karim
Al-ḥamdulil-llāh.

Saqib
Actually, can I humbly request a صلوات (ṣalawāt) or…?

Imam Abdul Karim
Al-ḥamdulil-llāh! That’s—to me that’s, I tell people ṣalawāt is the cheat code to Allāh like… I also have as you’ll hear in some of my discourse I have a background in gaming and so unfortunately but mashāʾAllāh.
So I say it's a cheat code because the ṣalawāt is the act of Allāh as we know from the Qurʾān, it's the act of Allāh, it’s the act of the angels, and Allāh commands those who believe to engage in it so when you're, when you're doing it, and the Prophet ṣallā Allāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam (ﷺ) returns it multiple times. So it's us explaining it like I say, “You know the Fourth of July like the fireworks and stuff,” ṣalawāt is like a light show because it's just from Allāh, the angels, yourself, as an obedience to the command and then the Prophet ṣallā Allāhu ʿalayhi wa sallam (ﷺ) responding with even more abundance of the salām it's just—it’s the easiest way to bring sweetness to your heart and sweetness in your relationship with Allāh and other beloveds so, al-ḥamduli-llāh I'll do a short ṣalawāt.

Imam Abdul Karim
صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο
صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο
صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο
صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο صلوات طيبات للحبيب مولاي محمد Ο
صلیٰ الله عليه وسلم

Ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalawātun tayibātun lil-ḥabībi mawlāy Muḥammad Ο ṣalā-llāhu ʿalayhi wa-salam
Al-ḥamduli-llāh.

O Allāh! We turn to you in gratitude to all that you’ve bestowed upon us. We ask for your forgiveness when we fall into error. We ask that you increase us in our knowledge, increase us in our capacity to receive and give love, mercy, and compassion in Your name. Increase us in our sincerity and allow us to taste the sweetness of our faith in this life and the next. ʾĀmīn.